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The Maronite Church is one of the Eastern Catholic Churches in communion with the Pope, but allowed to operate autonomously. They are largely Lebanese, having roots tracing back to a monk named St. Maron, for whom they are named. Separate from Rome for many years, they later became affiliated with the Pope around the 12th century.
Our Lady's Maronite Catholic Church is largely Lebanese, but not exclusively by any means. I have passed the church on several occasions and have been curious about visiting. The building has a style similar to what you might see at an Orthodox Church. As you approach the entrance, you pass a memorial garden that's attractive enough that you almost want to just go sit there for awhile. Entering the building, I immediately smelled the familiar smell of incense throughout the place. If you have been in liturgical services that use incense, you understand how that smell can immediately put your mind and body in a place where you are ready to worship. Although the people were generally warm, no one greeted me coming in and I found my way to the service books and into the sanctuary on my own. The church isn't very large, so this was no problem.
The sanctuary is absolutely beautiful. It has stained glass windows with pictures of various saints and depictions of key scenes in the life of Christ throughout. There is an altar, which sits behind a curtain up front (it is similarly positioned as an iconostasis is in an Orthodox Church). The ceiling has a large icon of Christ on it and the ceiling above the altar has one of Mary. The sanctuary is not particularly large, but it is wonderful to be in! You can really feel the presence of God while sitting there in a place that has been specifically designed for worship and reverence of Him.
The service was equally beautiful. The Maronite Rite feels like a cross between an Orthodox and Catholic service (which makes sense, given it's an Eastern Catholic Church). The service has an ancient feel to it, with chanting, incense and beautiful music. There are quite a few prayers as well. Although the liturgical language of Syriac is used some, the services are largely in English. It was very heavenly and being a part of the service really brought me to a great place of worship. The prayers, chanting, music and all really bring you to a place where you appreciate and remember the greatness of God (and kind of makes you feel silly that you sometimes pray for things like your football team to win).
The focus of the service was on those who have died in the faith. There were pictures on display of family members and others. The homily also revolved around loved ones who have died. The minister was fairly brief and very interesting to listen to. There was also a baptism. This, of course, is always a special moment in the life of the church. The child was cute and cried several times, reminding us that in the midst of this life-giving sacrament, we are still just human. The baptism rite included the congregation renewing their baptismal vows. One thing the minister said about baptism that stuck in my mind was that it was like plugging in a lamp. It plugs us into the energy source. However, as he pointed out, we still have to turn the lamp on. That's our response to God and our baptism.
Anyway, I can't recommend this church enough. I wish I was more eloquent and could describe the service in a way where you can picture it, but instead I will just say this: You will truly know that you have been in a holy place set aside to honor God for worship as you leave.
25 Şubat 2013 Pazartesi
St. David's Episcopal Church
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St. David's Episcopal Church is a beautiful church located in downtown Austin. It's a very active church, with multiple services all during the week. I was looking forward to this service as my personal experience is that the Episcopal Churches have possibly the most beautiful liturgy in the world (of course, that is merely my opinion). Parking is in a parking garage right next to the church. I recommend the church post signs explaining what to do once you pull into the garage. I wandered a bit, finally walked around the side of the building, stepped over a couple of homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk (yes, something felt strange about stepping over a homeless person on the way to worship), and came in the back door. I take these little cards with me and drop them in the offering plate after I visit a church. I had forgotten my card, so I went back out and around the building, into the garage and got the card. I then realized some people were taking the elevator and I went that way. (Again, no real indication on which floor to take). I went up a level, walked around a corner and then found the entrance to the church, which is kind of counter-intuitive because it's the entrance that faces into the block rather than the street. Of course, then I couldn't find my way to the sanctuary! Fortunately, I looked lost enough that a very nice lady asked me if I needed help and she gave me directions to the sanctuary. So, I finally got back to my seat and was able to take in the atmosphere.
The building is beautiful. What is most interesting about the stained glass windows is the dates when they were dedicated. Many were in the 1800s. The church, on the inside, simply does not look that old. It's very well kept and, although large and breathtaking, really has a cozy feel to it. Another thing I noticed is that there was a large number of people of all ages. I have been in many Episcopal Churches in which the crowd appeared to be mostly elderly. This was definitely not the case. The people appeared fairly enthusiastic about being there.
The music in the church is outstanding and everyone in the service was singing. In fact, I initially thought they were piping in voices or had the choir miked with speakers in the back, but it was obvious that the singing was coming from all around. Throughout the service, the people were truly engaged with the Scripture readings, the responsive readings, the prayers, and the sermon. During "the peace" people were walking all over the building to greet each other. At one point, the person behind me introduced herself and asked if I was new. She said she used to attend here before moving and she missed the place very much. She went on to say how great a church it was. Again, lots of enthusiasm.
The service followed the Book of Common Prayer liturgy. Something they do that is the first time I've seen in an Episcopal Church is they put the entire liturgy in the bulletin. That way, you don't have to flip back-and-forth through the BCP to figure out where you are. In fact, a common joke among Episcopalians is you can tell who has been in the church the longest based on whether or not they have the liturgy memorized (that's the longest), whether or not they know how to follow the order of service (that's a little newer), or whether or not they are flipping back-and-forth lost most of the time (that's the newest people). Not having to navigate the BCP allows one to focus on the service. Very nice touch!
The Scripture reading from the Old Testament was about the bronze serpent Moses raised up for the Israelites to look to as a cure for the snakes biting them. The Gospel reading referenced it as well. The sermon was delivered by Amy Moehnke, who is the Director of Youth Ministries. She talked about how the people were told to look to the serpent rather than avoiding the snakes biting them and how this really required suspending rational thought and trusting in the cure. She went on to apply that passage to Jesus, as He did Himself, in the Gospel reading. It was a little surprising, and I think appropriate, to hear an Episcopal sermon telling people to suspend their rational mind and trust in something that doesn't make sense. Typically, the knock you hear from outsiders on Episcopalians revolves around their denial of some of the tenants of the faith due to rational and logical arguments. However, this sermon demonstrated this is most likely an exaggeration of Episcopal theology. Amy is an engaging speaker and was very enjoyable to listen to.
Communion was served. All who believe in Christ were invited to participate. Music continued through communion and then the service closed. I really enjoyed the service. It's great to be among people who, although following a structured liturgy, do not appear to be just "going through the motions." Put that in the context of this historic church, beautiful building with reminders of their past as well as evidence of a vibrant, present life, and you will find this to be a great place to worship. Add on top of that the inclusive, loving and inviting hearts of the people and I think you'll find this a place most anyone could call home. I will probably take advantage of the multiple opportunities each week to worship to return to this church again.
The building is beautiful. What is most interesting about the stained glass windows is the dates when they were dedicated. Many were in the 1800s. The church, on the inside, simply does not look that old. It's very well kept and, although large and breathtaking, really has a cozy feel to it. Another thing I noticed is that there was a large number of people of all ages. I have been in many Episcopal Churches in which the crowd appeared to be mostly elderly. This was definitely not the case. The people appeared fairly enthusiastic about being there.
The music in the church is outstanding and everyone in the service was singing. In fact, I initially thought they were piping in voices or had the choir miked with speakers in the back, but it was obvious that the singing was coming from all around. Throughout the service, the people were truly engaged with the Scripture readings, the responsive readings, the prayers, and the sermon. During "the peace" people were walking all over the building to greet each other. At one point, the person behind me introduced herself and asked if I was new. She said she used to attend here before moving and she missed the place very much. She went on to say how great a church it was. Again, lots of enthusiasm.
The service followed the Book of Common Prayer liturgy. Something they do that is the first time I've seen in an Episcopal Church is they put the entire liturgy in the bulletin. That way, you don't have to flip back-and-forth through the BCP to figure out where you are. In fact, a common joke among Episcopalians is you can tell who has been in the church the longest based on whether or not they have the liturgy memorized (that's the longest), whether or not they know how to follow the order of service (that's a little newer), or whether or not they are flipping back-and-forth lost most of the time (that's the newest people). Not having to navigate the BCP allows one to focus on the service. Very nice touch!
The Scripture reading from the Old Testament was about the bronze serpent Moses raised up for the Israelites to look to as a cure for the snakes biting them. The Gospel reading referenced it as well. The sermon was delivered by Amy Moehnke, who is the Director of Youth Ministries. She talked about how the people were told to look to the serpent rather than avoiding the snakes biting them and how this really required suspending rational thought and trusting in the cure. She went on to apply that passage to Jesus, as He did Himself, in the Gospel reading. It was a little surprising, and I think appropriate, to hear an Episcopal sermon telling people to suspend their rational mind and trust in something that doesn't make sense. Typically, the knock you hear from outsiders on Episcopalians revolves around their denial of some of the tenants of the faith due to rational and logical arguments. However, this sermon demonstrated this is most likely an exaggeration of Episcopal theology. Amy is an engaging speaker and was very enjoyable to listen to.
Communion was served. All who believe in Christ were invited to participate. Music continued through communion and then the service closed. I really enjoyed the service. It's great to be among people who, although following a structured liturgy, do not appear to be just "going through the motions." Put that in the context of this historic church, beautiful building with reminders of their past as well as evidence of a vibrant, present life, and you will find this to be a great place to worship. Add on top of that the inclusive, loving and inviting hearts of the people and I think you'll find this a place most anyone could call home. I will probably take advantage of the multiple opportunities each week to worship to return to this church again.
Satan's Favorite Fiery Darts
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The Devil knows you very well. He knows your weaknesses. He knows which buttons to push. But thankfully, as a believer, you have everything you need. The Devil can not do one thing to you... unless you let him.
Inaddition to all of these, hold up the shield of faith to stop the fiery arrowsof the devil. Ephesians 6:16
Here are some of his favorites...
1. Unforgiveness - holding a grudge and being unwilling to forgive someone who has hurt you.
Instead,be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as Godthrough Christ has forgiven you. Ephesians 4:32
2. Anger - There is a righteous anger, but this is not that. Unrighteous Anger is usually personal...
And“don’t sin by letting anger control you.” Don’t let the sun go down while youare still angry, for anger gives a foothold to the devil. Ephesians 4:26–27
Butnow is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, anddirty language. Colossians 3:8
3. Doubt - This was the very first dart shot by Satan... He got Eve to doubt God. He loves to use this one.
Theserpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals the Lord God had made. One day he asked the woman, “Did Godreally say you must not eat the fruit from any of the trees in the garden?”Genesis 3:1
4. Pride - A desire to have all the attention... "Hey, look at me and my accomplishments!" This was Satan's first sin.
Buthe gives us even more grace to stand against such evil desires. As theScriptures say, “God opposes the proud but favors the humble.” So humble yourselves before God. Resist thedevil, and he will flee from you. James 4:6–7
5. Unholy Living - In other words... anything that is not like Jesus Christ.
Soyou must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways ofliving to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. But now you must be holy in everything youdo, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.” 1 Peter1:14–16
Dearfriends, I warn you as “temporary residents and foreigners” to keep away fromworldly desires that wage war against your very souls. 1 Peter 2:11
6. Creating Dissension - Do you like causing friction between friends? At work? At church? At school?
Obeyyour spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over yoursouls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joyand not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit. Hebrews13:17
7. Adversity - This is when tough things happen to you that you have no control over... you didn't cause it... you didn't ask for it... it just happened.
Ihave told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you willhave many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome theworld.” John 16:33
So which dart has your name on it?
The Devil knows you very well. He knows your weaknesses. He knows which buttons to push. But thankfully, as a believer, you have everything you need. The Devil can not do one thing to you... unless you let him.
Inaddition to all of these, hold up the shield of faith to stop the fiery arrowsof the devil. Ephesians 6:16
1. Unforgiveness - holding a grudge and being unwilling to forgive someone who has hurt you.
Instead,be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as Godthrough Christ has forgiven you. Ephesians 4:32
2. Anger - There is a righteous anger, but this is not that. Unrighteous Anger is usually personal...
And“don’t sin by letting anger control you.” Don’t let the sun go down while youare still angry, for anger gives a foothold to the devil. Ephesians 4:26–27
Butnow is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, anddirty language. Colossians 3:8
3. Doubt - This was the very first dart shot by Satan... He got Eve to doubt God. He loves to use this one.
Theserpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals the Lord God had made. One day he asked the woman, “Did Godreally say you must not eat the fruit from any of the trees in the garden?”Genesis 3:1
4. Pride - A desire to have all the attention... "Hey, look at me and my accomplishments!" This was Satan's first sin.
Buthe gives us even more grace to stand against such evil desires. As theScriptures say, “God opposes the proud but favors the humble.” So humble yourselves before God. Resist thedevil, and he will flee from you. James 4:6–7
5. Unholy Living - In other words... anything that is not like Jesus Christ.
Soyou must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways ofliving to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. But now you must be holy in everything youdo, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.” 1 Peter1:14–16
Dearfriends, I warn you as “temporary residents and foreigners” to keep away fromworldly desires that wage war against your very souls. 1 Peter 2:11
6. Creating Dissension - Do you like causing friction between friends? At work? At church? At school?
Obeyyour spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over yoursouls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joyand not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit. Hebrews13:17
7. Adversity - This is when tough things happen to you that you have no control over... you didn't cause it... you didn't ask for it... it just happened.
Ihave told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you willhave many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome theworld.” John 16:33
So which dart has your name on it?
Preacher's kid
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Preacher's kid
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For the movie starring LeToya Luckett and Durrell Babbs see Preacher's Kid (film).
Preacher's kid (abbreviated as PK) is a term to refer to a child of a preacher, pastor, deacon, vicar, minister or other similar church leader. Although the phrase can be used in a purely descriptive way, it is often used pejoratively or stereotypically. It is mainly used in the United States.
Some clergy live in social networks that impose uncodified and perhaps unconscious expectations about the conduct, not only of the clergy themselves, but also the members of their families.[1] Children of church leaders are often subjected to greater scrutiny by the community than other children. People around them, including their parents, often set higher moral and behavioral standards for these children. Due to the greater visibility of these children, their mistakes are magnified and given extra attention. In addition, these children often sense that they are treated differently from others and can react in various disruptive ways. The term also has connotations of itinerance, with the preacher's kid following their parent on the latter's postings to different congregations.[2] Finally, preachers' kids witness the day to day business of their religious congregations more intimately than the non-clergy members do, and become familiar with church administration and the social dimensions of dealing with the congregation at an early age. A large number of the children of Protestant and Jewish clergy go on to become members of the clergy themselves.[3]
Preacher's kid syndrome is a situation in which the parents of a preacher's kid are attuned to everyone's problems but those of the kid.[4]
Stereotypes
All of these factors lead to a preacher's kid stereotype. There are two general stereotypes of preachers' kids.
Stereotype one
Preachers' kids act as if they are "holier-than-thou." They preach their beliefs to anybody they encounter. They do not like to be wrong about what they preach, even in the opinions of others. They may be also prepotent, and in some cases, spoiled brats.
Stereotype two
Preachers' kids start out as good, faithful children, but anywhere from their preteen years to their adult life, they rebel. They do anything they can to avoid the church and its practices. They may deny their parents outright or they may be rebellious behind their parents' backs.[5][6]
Contents
1 Famous examples
2 References
3 Further reading
4 External links
[edit] 1 Famous examples
List of children of clergy
[edit] 2 References
^ Thomas W. Klink, "The Ministry as Career and Crisis", in Pastoral Psychology, v. 20 no. 6 pp. 13-19 (Springer: 1969)
^ DeLeon, David (1994). Leaders from the 1960s. Westport: Greenwood Press. ISBN 0313274142.
^ David Peterson, "Preachers' kids; The children of preachers saw life in their church or synagogue from the inside. Many rejected the preacher's life, but others were drawn to follow their father's footsteps." (Minneapolis Star Tribune, byline Oct. 11, 1997, accessed Nov. 21, 2008)
^ Coats, Karen (2007) . Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books [0008-9036], volume 60, p.332
^ "Rebel Graham Son Finds His Cause". Albuquerque Journal. May 4, 1998.
^ Maxwell, Bill (May 13, 2001). "A Preacher's Kid is exposed". St. Petersburg Times. Retrieved 2008-11-20.
[edit] 3 Further reading
Amy L Woods (1995). Preacher's kid. Regent University, Virginia Beach, Va. 1995. OCLC 33477968
Everett, Liz (July 20, 2000). "Preacher's kids not any different". Amarillo Globe-News.
Keleigh Crigler Hadley (2009). Preacher's Kids.http://www.amazon.com/Preachers-Kids-Keleigh-Crigler-Hadley/dp/1449504418/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_prod_0_1
[edit] 4 External links
Douglas F. Campbell, The Clergy Family in Canada: Focus on Adult PK's, read at the annual meeting of the Association for the Sociology of Religion, Washington, D.C., August 18-20, 1995.[dead link]
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Talk:Preacher's kid
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Articles for deletion This page was nominated for deletion on 20 November 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.
For a December 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Preacher's Kid
"PK" is a slang term used among Christians and heard by others. If they do not know what a PK is, it will not be found in the dictionary or in the encyclopedia.
There are terms such as "Xian" meaning Christian on this site. "PK" is another one of those slang terms that is used by sone and not everybody knows. Therefore, they may come here looking for a definition.
This is where I found "Xian."
KagomeShuko, can you sign (~~~~) your edits on talk pages, thanks Mike ~ mlk ✉♬ 06:51, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) ~
Does anyone else it would be great if "Pastor's Kid" was a wikipedia category/list? Off the top of my head there's Condaleeza Rice, John Ashcroft, Britney Spears... and way more. -Genesis Winter
[edit] Article only portrays two stereotypes
This article only portrays two stereotypes, the "rebellious teen" and the "holier than thou". It doesn't really discuss the problems and resentments that can build up. The pressure on the kids to have exemplary behavior and not cause trouble for the father, combined with the father who is very busy, but seems to have unlimited time for everybody else but the family. This profession is a difficult one to balance the demands of the job and the family, the fathers often come home emotionally drained by continuous contact with people and their problems, to collapse at home, with the family feeling pressure not to add their own problems to the burdens already on the father. Perhaps a third stereotype that also has some truth would be the kids that feel pressure to always be perfect, friendly and happy, and that have learned to repress their own feelings and sense of abandonment.--Silverback 09:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
This third stereotype is probably the most widespread amongst the many PKs I grew up with. PKs that were all happy, friendly, polite, the perfect children as far as the outside world was concerned. Seeing how we grew up, and the many that have had unhappy lives makes you wonder just how many of those perfect children were deeply troubled underneath. Our feelings were not the important ones, PKs were there to serve the parish, trained not to mind when parents had no time for them. This sense of abandonment and of being unlovable as a result of not having attention lavished on one must surely have a big effect on adult relationships. The scars run deep, but one feels they must always be hidden. How many attract partners and then feel beholden to stay with them because of that sense of duty implanted as a child? Surely a fascinating subject for psychological studies.
Scrundle 11:29, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
New to editing on WikiPedia so if I screw up protocol or something, just let me know.
Silverback and Scrundle have it. As a PK myself, I can attest to this third stereotype... I was actually quite disappointed to see the phenomenon so poorly represented in this article. (I would love to edit it, but as I said, I'm a bit nervous about breaching WikiPedia protocol for editing, bibliography and so on.) We weren't an unhappy family as a whole, but there was a growing sense of resentment over things like, for example, never being able to go fishing with my dad because he was too busy with counseling appointments. As a family we were all involved in the ministry, so it wasn't like Dad was the only one engaged in things, but it all left very little time for us to be family and do crazy things like take vacations.
There's more to the story than just 3 stereotypes, though. Scrundle hit on part of it. Having been indoctrinated to be both of service to a community and to keep our issues on the down-low, we often end up in relationships that aren't ideal and have issues getting out of them. Communication issues abound due to the "seen and not heard" aspect of our childhoods. Many of us will work to exhaustion to "fix" these relationships (and even partners), mirroring our parents' role as marriage and family counsellors. Anecdotally, we have a predisposition to codependence due to our need to be loved and willingness to kill ourselves to maintain a relationship.
The problem is that I don't know of any works that express these things, so the bibliography would be a bit short and I know that personal observations and experience aren't considered to meet the standards of WikiPedia.
--ArmchairDeity (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
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Preacher's kid
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 138.37.7.247 (talk) at 2009-10-22T13:30:27. It may differ significantly from the current revision.
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For the movie starring LeToya Luckett and Durrell Babbs see Preacher's Kid (film).
Preacher's kid (abbreviated as PK) is a term to refer to a child of a preacher, pastor, deacon, vicar, minister or other similar church leader. Although the phrase can be used in a purely descriptive way, it is often used pejoratively or stereotypically. It is mainly used in the United States.
Some clergy live in social networks that impose uncodified and perhaps unconscious expectations about the conduct, not only of the clergy themselves, but also the members of their families.[1] Children of church leaders are often subjected to greater scrutiny by the community than other children. People around them, including their parents, often set higher moral and behavioral standards for these children. Due to the greater visibility of these children, their mistakes are magnified and given extra attention. In addition, these children often sense that they are treated differently from others and can react in various disruptive ways. The term also has connotations of itinerance, with the preacher's kid following their parent on the latter's postings to different congregations.[2] Finally, preachers' kids witness the day to day business of their religious congregations more intimately than the non-clergy members do, and become familiar with church administration and the social dimensions of dealing with the congregation at an early age. A large number of the children of Protestant and Jewish clergy go on to become members of the clergy themselves.[3]
Preacher's kid syndrome is a situation in which the parents of a preacher's kid are attuned to everyone's problems but those of the kid.[4]
Contents
1 Stereotypes
2 Famous examples
3 See also
4 References
5 Further reading
6 External links
1 Stereotypes
All of these factors lead to a preacher's kid stereotype. There are two general stereotypes of preachers' kids.
Stereotype one
Preachers' kids act as if they are "holier-than-thou." They preach their beliefs to anybody they encounter. They do not like to be wrong about what they preach, even in the opinions of others. They may be also prepotent, and in some cases, spoiled brats.
Stereotype two
Preachers' kids start out as good, faithful children, but anywhere from their preteen years to their adult life, they rebel. They do anything they can to avoid the church and its practices. They may deny their parents outright or they may be rebellious behind their parents' backs.[5][6]
2 Famous examples
Tori Amos
Ingmar Bergman
Nat King Cole
Alice Cooper
Gudrun Ensslin
Aretha Franklin
Mark Few
Marvin Gaye
Phil Jackson (both parents)
Carl Jung
Art Linkletter[7]
Charlie Manuel
George McGovern
Friedrich Nietzsche
Katy Perry
Condoleezza Rice
Jessica Simpson
Harriet Beecher Stowe
David Tennant
Nicola Tesla
Vincent Van Gogh
Denzel Washington
The Wright Brothers
Malcolm X
Jonas Brothers
Elijah Muhammad
Gordon Brown
3 See also
List of children of clergy
4 References
^ Thomas W. Klink, "The Ministry as Career and Crisis", in Pastoral Psychology, v. 20 no. 6, pp. 13-19 (Springer: 1969)
^ DeLeon, David (1994). Leaders from the 1960s. Westport: Greenwood Press. ISBN 0313274142.
^ David Peterson, "Preachers' kids; The children of preachers saw life in their church or synagogue from the inside. Many rejected the preacher's life, but others were drawn to follow their father's footsteps." (Minneapolis Star Tribune, byline Oct. 11, 1997, accessed Nov. 21, 2008)
^ Coats, Karen (2007) . Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books [0008-9036], volume 60, p.332
^ "Rebel Graham Son Finds His Cause". Albuquerque Journal. May 4, 1998.
^ Maxwell, Bill (May 13, 2001). "A Preacher's Kid is exposed". St. Petersburg Times. Retrieved 2008-11-20.
^ Mann, Arnold (November 11, 2002). "Preacher's Kid". TIME. Retrieved 2008-11-20.
5 Further reading
Amy L Woods (1995). Preacher's kid. Regent University, Virginia Beach, Va. 1995. OCLC 33477968
Everett, Liz (July 20, 2000). "Preacher's kids not any different". Amarillo Globe-News.
6 External links
Douglas F. Campbell, The Clergy Family in Canada: Focus on Adult PK's, read at the annual meeting of the Association for the Sociology of Religion, Washington, D.C., August 18-20, 1995.[dead link]
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For the movie starring LeToya Luckett and Durrell Babbs see Preacher's Kid (film).
Preacher's kid (abbreviated as PK) is a term to refer to a child of a preacher, pastor, deacon, vicar, minister or other similar church leader. Although the phrase can be used in a purely descriptive way, it is often used pejoratively or stereotypically. It is mainly used in the United States.
Some clergy live in social networks that impose uncodified and perhaps unconscious expectations about the conduct, not only of the clergy themselves, but also the members of their families.[1] Children of church leaders are often subjected to greater scrutiny by the community than other children. People around them, including their parents, often set higher moral and behavioral standards for these children. Due to the greater visibility of these children, their mistakes are magnified and given extra attention. In addition, these children often sense that they are treated differently from others and can react in various disruptive ways. The term also has connotations of itinerance, with the preacher's kid following their parent on the latter's postings to different congregations.[2] Finally, preachers' kids witness the day to day business of their religious congregations more intimately than the non-clergy members do, and become familiar with church administration and the social dimensions of dealing with the congregation at an early age. A large number of the children of Protestant and Jewish clergy go on to become members of the clergy themselves.[3]
Preacher's kid syndrome is a situation in which the parents of a preacher's kid are attuned to everyone's problems but those of the kid.[4]
Stereotypes
All of these factors lead to a preacher's kid stereotype. There are two general stereotypes of preachers' kids.
Stereotype one
Preachers' kids act as if they are "holier-than-thou." They preach their beliefs to anybody they encounter. They do not like to be wrong about what they preach, even in the opinions of others. They may be also prepotent, and in some cases, spoiled brats.
Stereotype two
Preachers' kids start out as good, faithful children, but anywhere from their preteen years to their adult life, they rebel. They do anything they can to avoid the church and its practices. They may deny their parents outright or they may be rebellious behind their parents' backs.[5][6]
Contents
1 Famous examples
2 References
3 Further reading
4 External links
[edit] 1 Famous examples
List of children of clergy
[edit] 2 References
^ Thomas W. Klink, "The Ministry as Career and Crisis", in Pastoral Psychology, v. 20 no. 6 pp. 13-19 (Springer: 1969)
^ DeLeon, David (1994). Leaders from the 1960s. Westport: Greenwood Press. ISBN 0313274142.
^ David Peterson, "Preachers' kids; The children of preachers saw life in their church or synagogue from the inside. Many rejected the preacher's life, but others were drawn to follow their father's footsteps." (Minneapolis Star Tribune, byline Oct. 11, 1997, accessed Nov. 21, 2008)
^ Coats, Karen (2007) . Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books [0008-9036], volume 60, p.332
^ "Rebel Graham Son Finds His Cause". Albuquerque Journal. May 4, 1998.
^ Maxwell, Bill (May 13, 2001). "A Preacher's Kid is exposed". St. Petersburg Times. Retrieved 2008-11-20.
[edit] 3 Further reading
Amy L Woods (1995). Preacher's kid. Regent University, Virginia Beach, Va. 1995. OCLC 33477968
Everett, Liz (July 20, 2000). "Preacher's kids not any different". Amarillo Globe-News.
Keleigh Crigler Hadley (2009). Preacher's Kids.http://www.amazon.com/Preachers-Kids-Keleigh-Crigler-Hadley/dp/1449504418/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_prod_0_1
[edit] 4 External links
Douglas F. Campbell, The Clergy Family in Canada: Focus on Adult PK's, read at the annual meeting of the Association for the Sociology of Religion, Washington, D.C., August 18-20, 1995.[dead link]
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Talk:Preacher's kid
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Articles for deletion This page was nominated for deletion on 20 November 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.
For a December 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Preacher's Kid
"PK" is a slang term used among Christians and heard by others. If they do not know what a PK is, it will not be found in the dictionary or in the encyclopedia.
There are terms such as "Xian" meaning Christian on this site. "PK" is another one of those slang terms that is used by sone and not everybody knows. Therefore, they may come here looking for a definition.
This is where I found "Xian."
KagomeShuko, can you sign (~~~~) your edits on talk pages, thanks Mike ~ mlk ✉♬ 06:51, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) ~
Does anyone else it would be great if "Pastor's Kid" was a wikipedia category/list? Off the top of my head there's Condaleeza Rice, John Ashcroft, Britney Spears... and way more. -Genesis Winter
[edit] Article only portrays two stereotypes
This article only portrays two stereotypes, the "rebellious teen" and the "holier than thou". It doesn't really discuss the problems and resentments that can build up. The pressure on the kids to have exemplary behavior and not cause trouble for the father, combined with the father who is very busy, but seems to have unlimited time for everybody else but the family. This profession is a difficult one to balance the demands of the job and the family, the fathers often come home emotionally drained by continuous contact with people and their problems, to collapse at home, with the family feeling pressure not to add their own problems to the burdens already on the father. Perhaps a third stereotype that also has some truth would be the kids that feel pressure to always be perfect, friendly and happy, and that have learned to repress their own feelings and sense of abandonment.--Silverback 09:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
This third stereotype is probably the most widespread amongst the many PKs I grew up with. PKs that were all happy, friendly, polite, the perfect children as far as the outside world was concerned. Seeing how we grew up, and the many that have had unhappy lives makes you wonder just how many of those perfect children were deeply troubled underneath. Our feelings were not the important ones, PKs were there to serve the parish, trained not to mind when parents had no time for them. This sense of abandonment and of being unlovable as a result of not having attention lavished on one must surely have a big effect on adult relationships. The scars run deep, but one feels they must always be hidden. How many attract partners and then feel beholden to stay with them because of that sense of duty implanted as a child? Surely a fascinating subject for psychological studies.
Scrundle 11:29, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
New to editing on WikiPedia so if I screw up protocol or something, just let me know.
Silverback and Scrundle have it. As a PK myself, I can attest to this third stereotype... I was actually quite disappointed to see the phenomenon so poorly represented in this article. (I would love to edit it, but as I said, I'm a bit nervous about breaching WikiPedia protocol for editing, bibliography and so on.) We weren't an unhappy family as a whole, but there was a growing sense of resentment over things like, for example, never being able to go fishing with my dad because he was too busy with counseling appointments. As a family we were all involved in the ministry, so it wasn't like Dad was the only one engaged in things, but it all left very little time for us to be family and do crazy things like take vacations.
There's more to the story than just 3 stereotypes, though. Scrundle hit on part of it. Having been indoctrinated to be both of service to a community and to keep our issues on the down-low, we often end up in relationships that aren't ideal and have issues getting out of them. Communication issues abound due to the "seen and not heard" aspect of our childhoods. Many of us will work to exhaustion to "fix" these relationships (and even partners), mirroring our parents' role as marriage and family counsellors. Anecdotally, we have a predisposition to codependence due to our need to be loved and willingness to kill ourselves to maintain a relationship.
The problem is that I don't know of any works that express these things, so the bibliography would be a bit short and I know that personal observations and experience aren't considered to meet the standards of WikiPedia.
--ArmchairDeity (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
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(cur | prev) 2009-04-10T22:56:33 John Carter (talk | contribs) m (3,056 bytes) (Start class for Christianity) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2006-03-29T09:15:20 Silverback (talk | contribs) (1,776 bytes) (→Article only portrays two stereotypes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2006-03-29T09:14:53 Silverback (talk | contribs) (1,766 bytes) (Article only portrays two stereotypes) (undo)
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Preacher's kid
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 138.37.7.247 (talk) at 2009-10-22T13:30:27. It may differ significantly from the current revision.
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For the movie starring LeToya Luckett and Durrell Babbs see Preacher's Kid (film).
Preacher's kid (abbreviated as PK) is a term to refer to a child of a preacher, pastor, deacon, vicar, minister or other similar church leader. Although the phrase can be used in a purely descriptive way, it is often used pejoratively or stereotypically. It is mainly used in the United States.
Some clergy live in social networks that impose uncodified and perhaps unconscious expectations about the conduct, not only of the clergy themselves, but also the members of their families.[1] Children of church leaders are often subjected to greater scrutiny by the community than other children. People around them, including their parents, often set higher moral and behavioral standards for these children. Due to the greater visibility of these children, their mistakes are magnified and given extra attention. In addition, these children often sense that they are treated differently from others and can react in various disruptive ways. The term also has connotations of itinerance, with the preacher's kid following their parent on the latter's postings to different congregations.[2] Finally, preachers' kids witness the day to day business of their religious congregations more intimately than the non-clergy members do, and become familiar with church administration and the social dimensions of dealing with the congregation at an early age. A large number of the children of Protestant and Jewish clergy go on to become members of the clergy themselves.[3]
Preacher's kid syndrome is a situation in which the parents of a preacher's kid are attuned to everyone's problems but those of the kid.[4]
Contents
1 Stereotypes
2 Famous examples
3 See also
4 References
5 Further reading
6 External links
1 Stereotypes
All of these factors lead to a preacher's kid stereotype. There are two general stereotypes of preachers' kids.
Stereotype one
Preachers' kids act as if they are "holier-than-thou." They preach their beliefs to anybody they encounter. They do not like to be wrong about what they preach, even in the opinions of others. They may be also prepotent, and in some cases, spoiled brats.
Stereotype two
Preachers' kids start out as good, faithful children, but anywhere from their preteen years to their adult life, they rebel. They do anything they can to avoid the church and its practices. They may deny their parents outright or they may be rebellious behind their parents' backs.[5][6]
2 Famous examples
Tori Amos
Ingmar Bergman
Nat King Cole
Alice Cooper
Gudrun Ensslin
Aretha Franklin
Mark Few
Marvin Gaye
Phil Jackson (both parents)
Carl Jung
Art Linkletter[7]
Charlie Manuel
George McGovern
Friedrich Nietzsche
Katy Perry
Condoleezza Rice
Jessica Simpson
Harriet Beecher Stowe
David Tennant
Nicola Tesla
Vincent Van Gogh
Denzel Washington
The Wright Brothers
Malcolm X
Jonas Brothers
Elijah Muhammad
Gordon Brown
3 See also
List of children of clergy
4 References
^ Thomas W. Klink, "The Ministry as Career and Crisis", in Pastoral Psychology, v. 20 no. 6, pp. 13-19 (Springer: 1969)
^ DeLeon, David (1994). Leaders from the 1960s. Westport: Greenwood Press. ISBN 0313274142.
^ David Peterson, "Preachers' kids; The children of preachers saw life in their church or synagogue from the inside. Many rejected the preacher's life, but others were drawn to follow their father's footsteps." (Minneapolis Star Tribune, byline Oct. 11, 1997, accessed Nov. 21, 2008)
^ Coats, Karen (2007) . Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books [0008-9036], volume 60, p.332
^ "Rebel Graham Son Finds His Cause". Albuquerque Journal. May 4, 1998.
^ Maxwell, Bill (May 13, 2001). "A Preacher's Kid is exposed". St. Petersburg Times. Retrieved 2008-11-20.
^ Mann, Arnold (November 11, 2002). "Preacher's Kid". TIME. Retrieved 2008-11-20.
5 Further reading
Amy L Woods (1995). Preacher's kid. Regent University, Virginia Beach, Va. 1995. OCLC 33477968
Everett, Liz (July 20, 2000). "Preacher's kids not any different". Amarillo Globe-News.
6 External links
Douglas F. Campbell, The Clergy Family in Canada: Focus on Adult PK's, read at the annual meeting of the Association for the Sociology of Religion, Washington, D.C., August 18-20, 1995.[dead link]
Don't even think about it!
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Don't even think about it!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.
Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
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"Don't even think about it!" is an emphatic prohibition[1] popularized by a 1993 Pepsi commercial featuring Shaquille O'Neal, a famous basketball player.
Contents
1 History
2 Popularization
3 Cultural references
4 References
5 See also
6 Further reading
[edit] 1 History
A "Don't even THINK of parking here" sign in New York City
The catchphrase as used by the Pepsi ad was based upon a similar phrase, "Don't even THINK of parking here", which came into use on no parking signs in major cities such as New York City and Chicago.[2][3] The signs first appeared in New York in 1982 during Ed Koch's mayoral administration.[4][5]
[edit] 2 Popularization
The 1993 commercial featuring O'Neal begins with him playing hoops at a street basketball court. A little kid notices him, and exclaims O'Neal's nickname, "Shaq". O'Neal, noticing that the kid has a Pepsi in his hand, walks over and says "Hey, can I have it?" He bends over, supposing that his admirer will give him the soda, but the kid refuses, saying: "Don't even think about it!" Suddenly, a sound simulating that of a scratched record is heard, and the commercial ends with the Pepsi logo and slogan.
The commercial is actually a parody of another famous one from the 1970s produced by Pepsi's rival, Coca-Cola, in which a young boy meets football player "Mean" Joe Greene as he is leaving the field after a game. The boy gives his hero a bottle of Coke and, in exchange for the drink, the football player throws his towel to the boy, who excitedly catches the souvenir.
[edit] 3 Cultural references
The phrase also appears in series 4, episode 5 of Men Behaving Badly, when a drunken Gary climbs into bed intent on having sex with the sleeping Dorothy; it is revealed that she is wearing a T-shirt with "Don't even think about it!" written on it in large letters. The phrase was also used as the title of a 2004 book by Lauren Henderson.[6]
[edit] 4 References
^ Bruce K. Waltke. "The Book of Proverbs: Chapters 15-31". p. 265.
^ E.J. Dionne (August 16, 1998). No Go. The Washington Post.
^ "13 Ways to Get Message on Parking". Chicago Tribune. Associated Press: p. 4. March 5, 1987. Retrieved January 1, 2011.
^ Ari L. Goldman (June 15, 1982). "Bus-Only Lanes to be Increased to Speed Travel". The New York Times: section A, p. 1.
^ Clyde Haberman and Laurie Johnston (September 4, 1982). "New York Day by Day". The New York Times: section 1, p. 24.
^ Lauren Henderson (2004). Don't Even Think About It. Downtown Press. ISBN 0743464699.
[edit] 5 See also
Parking violation
[edit] 6 Further reading
Paul Trapido, Barbara Ensor (1986). Don't Even Think of Parking Here: The New York City Guide to Parking and Driving. Simon & Schuster. ISBN 0671628369.
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Talk:Don't even think about it!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Articles for deletion This page was nominated for deletion on 3 June 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.
a spoiler alert for a tv commercial? what next? Kingturtle 22:51 May 13, 2003 (UTC)
Doesn't this fall under #5 of What Wikipedia is not? A slang and idiom guide? DanKeshet 04:07, Aug 23, 2003 (UTC)
No because the article is actually about the commercial, but I wrote the explanation of the phrase as a prefix so that non-Americans can understand why it was used in the commercial.
Antonio Bang Bang Baby Bang Bang! Martin
The article is no longer about the commercial. I don't think that anything referenced within, either a five-year old commercial or a reference within a television show, is particluarly notable. SixFourThree (talk) 14:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
What about Where's the beef?? I think Don't even think about it! is up to the same snuff. Kingturtle (talk) 19:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Comparing the two articles, I don't agree. Maybe if somebody cuts a single about "Don't Even Think About It." SixFourThree (talk) 17:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
Problem is: the New York sign says: don't even think of... not about. Important for learners (but the sign is funny though).Klebbsen (talk) 19:43, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
[edit] Direction for Article?
I did some cleanup of the article today (my first good deed for the new year). I think the article might be more valuable for the traffic sign - I was looking at another Wikipedia article about road signs in the U.S. and the NYC parking restriction sign piqued my interest. Through some googling, I was led back to Wikipedia and this article.
My cleanup involved fixing the picture, giving the article a more formal tone, and adding some links which may be of more interest to someone seeking info on the sign. I also linked back to this article from the road signs article and another article, Parking violation. I'm unsure what to do at this point. Perhaps an article on the sign itself is warranted? It certainly is a strange and interesting one! Kfranco (talk) 22:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.
Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
Feel free to edit the article, but the article must not be blanked, and this notice must not be removed, until the discussion is closed. For more information, particularly on merging or moving the article during the discussion, read the Guide to deletion.
"Don't even think about it!" is an emphatic prohibition[1] popularized by a 1993 Pepsi commercial featuring Shaquille O'Neal, a famous basketball player.
Contents
1 History
2 Popularization
3 Cultural references
4 References
5 See also
6 Further reading
[edit] 1 History
A "Don't even THINK of parking here" sign in New York City
The catchphrase as used by the Pepsi ad was based upon a similar phrase, "Don't even THINK of parking here", which came into use on no parking signs in major cities such as New York City and Chicago.[2][3] The signs first appeared in New York in 1982 during Ed Koch's mayoral administration.[4][5]
[edit] 2 Popularization
The 1993 commercial featuring O'Neal begins with him playing hoops at a street basketball court. A little kid notices him, and exclaims O'Neal's nickname, "Shaq". O'Neal, noticing that the kid has a Pepsi in his hand, walks over and says "Hey, can I have it?" He bends over, supposing that his admirer will give him the soda, but the kid refuses, saying: "Don't even think about it!" Suddenly, a sound simulating that of a scratched record is heard, and the commercial ends with the Pepsi logo and slogan.
The commercial is actually a parody of another famous one from the 1970s produced by Pepsi's rival, Coca-Cola, in which a young boy meets football player "Mean" Joe Greene as he is leaving the field after a game. The boy gives his hero a bottle of Coke and, in exchange for the drink, the football player throws his towel to the boy, who excitedly catches the souvenir.
[edit] 3 Cultural references
The phrase also appears in series 4, episode 5 of Men Behaving Badly, when a drunken Gary climbs into bed intent on having sex with the sleeping Dorothy; it is revealed that she is wearing a T-shirt with "Don't even think about it!" written on it in large letters. The phrase was also used as the title of a 2004 book by Lauren Henderson.[6]
[edit] 4 References
^ Bruce K. Waltke. "The Book of Proverbs: Chapters 15-31". p. 265.
^ E.J. Dionne (August 16, 1998). No Go. The Washington Post.
^ "13 Ways to Get Message on Parking". Chicago Tribune. Associated Press: p. 4. March 5, 1987. Retrieved January 1, 2011.
^ Ari L. Goldman (June 15, 1982). "Bus-Only Lanes to be Increased to Speed Travel". The New York Times: section A, p. 1.
^ Clyde Haberman and Laurie Johnston (September 4, 1982). "New York Day by Day". The New York Times: section 1, p. 24.
^ Lauren Henderson (2004). Don't Even Think About It. Downtown Press. ISBN 0743464699.
[edit] 5 See also
Parking violation
[edit] 6 Further reading
Paul Trapido, Barbara Ensor (1986). Don't Even Think of Parking Here: The New York City Guide to Parking and Driving. Simon & Schuster. ISBN 0671628369.
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(cur | prev) 2011-02-13T22:39:44 204.174.87.29 (talk) (3,756 bytes) (catchphrase -> catch phrase) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-01-05T05:59:52 Kfranco (talk | contribs) m (3,755 bytes) (→History: A word change (from "variant" to "similar") and removed an unneeded "the".) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-01-01T22:20:19 Kfranco (talk | contribs) (3,759 bytes) (Additional work (reformat) of article, additional citations.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2011-01-01T20:40:07 Kfranco (talk | contribs) (3,069 bytes) (Changed picture to retouched version, changed link for no parking sign, slight edit for photo caption, completed other edits in body of text for readability, etc.) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2009-06-04T00:27:28 Juliancolton (talk | contribs) (2,914 bytes) (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don't even think about it! closed as no consensus) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-06-03T03:58:18 Benjiboi (talk | contribs) (3,275 bytes) (formatting) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-05-31T09:00:47 Colonel Warden (talk | contribs) (3,289 bytes) (more on parking) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-05-31T08:50:31 Colonel Warden (talk | contribs) (3,117 bytes) (improve link - tag) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-05-31T08:48:52 Colonel Warden (talk | contribs) (3,117 bytes) (Rewrite lead from source) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-05-31T08:43:21 Colonel Warden (talk | contribs) (3,206 bytes) (change tag) (undo)
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(cur | prev) 2009-05-27T20:52:11 Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk | contribs) (3,227 bytes) (→History: reword) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-05-27T20:50:08 Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk | contribs) (3,391 bytes) (http://books.google.com/books?id=lU8nzaeQYkcC) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-05-27T20:49:21 Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk | contribs) (3,346 bytes) (In 2004 it was the title of a book by Lauren Henderson.{{cite book |last= |first= |authorlink= |coauthors= |title=Don't Even Think About It |year=2004 |publisher=Downtown Press |quote= | url= |is) (undo)
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Talk:Don't even think about it!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Articles for deletion This page was nominated for deletion on 3 June 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.
a spoiler alert for a tv commercial? what next? Kingturtle 22:51 May 13, 2003 (UTC)
Doesn't this fall under #5 of What Wikipedia is not? A slang and idiom guide? DanKeshet 04:07, Aug 23, 2003 (UTC)
No because the article is actually about the commercial, but I wrote the explanation of the phrase as a prefix so that non-Americans can understand why it was used in the commercial.
Antonio Bang Bang Baby Bang Bang! Martin
The article is no longer about the commercial. I don't think that anything referenced within, either a five-year old commercial or a reference within a television show, is particluarly notable. SixFourThree (talk) 14:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
What about Where's the beef?? I think Don't even think about it! is up to the same snuff. Kingturtle (talk) 19:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Comparing the two articles, I don't agree. Maybe if somebody cuts a single about "Don't Even Think About It." SixFourThree (talk) 17:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
Problem is: the New York sign says: don't even think of... not about. Important for learners (but the sign is funny though).Klebbsen (talk) 19:43, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
[edit] Direction for Article?
I did some cleanup of the article today (my first good deed for the new year). I think the article might be more valuable for the traffic sign - I was looking at another Wikipedia article about road signs in the U.S. and the NYC parking restriction sign piqued my interest. Through some googling, I was led back to Wikipedia and this article.
My cleanup involved fixing the picture, giving the article a more formal tone, and adding some links which may be of more interest to someone seeking info on the sign. I also linked back to this article from the road signs article and another article, Parking violation. I'm unsure what to do at this point. Perhaps an article on the sign itself is warranted? It certainly is a strange and interesting one! Kfranco (talk) 22:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
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(cur | prev) 2011-01-01T22:35:10 Kfranco (talk | contribs) m (2,481 bytes) (→Direction for Article?: new section) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2010-10-09T19:43:54 Klebbsen (talk | contribs) (1,560 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2009-06-04T00:27:27 Juliancolton (talk | contribs) (1,350 bytes) (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don't even think about it! closed as no consensus) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-16T17:46:03 SixFourThree (talk | contribs) (1,241 bytes) (still don't know if this is sufficiently notable) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-09T19:33:30 Kingturtle (talk | contribs) (1,021 bytes) (reply) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2008-05-09T14:26:12 SixFourThree (talk | contribs) (835 bytes) (not notable) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2003-09-10T10:37:27 AntonioMartin (talk | contribs) m (539 bytes) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2003-08-23T04:07:43 DanKeshet (talk | contribs) (282 bytes) (this is what wikpiedia is not) (undo)
(cur | prev) 2003-05-13T22:51:03 Kingturtle (talk | contribs) (103 bytes) (a spoiler alert for a tv commercial? what next? ~~~~)
24 Şubat 2013 Pazar
"It's Not Your Money!!" Says Steven Furtick, as He Proudly Screams "Yes! The Church Wants Your Money!!"
To contact us Click HERE
"Yes, the church wants your money!! Guess what? It's not your money! God gave you that money, Big Boy!....my name is Steven Furtick, and I approve this message!" Steven Furtick - SEE VIDEO BELOW-----------------------------------What is so fascinating about mega church pastors is the new lows to which they plunge in their attempts to expand their church, and to extend their reach into the pockets of their followers.
In the video below, Steven Furtick of Elevation Church in Charlotte, NC, proudly proclaims that "Yes, the church wants your money", and then tells his church members as they hoot and holler: "It's not your money!"
What Steven means is that he and his church have a greater right to your checking account than you do. None of your money is yours, says Steven. All of your money is God's, and you need to give God back at least 10% if not more, since he gave it to you. And here's the catch: to give God back what he gave you - which doesn't make sense since God owns it all anyways - according to Steven you have only one choice: give it to Elevation Church - because Steven is building the church that Jesus promised he would be responsible for.
"And once upon a time, there was a little girl named Goldilocks who went for a walk in the woods..."
Furtick's claim to his follower's money is so illogical, and so wrong-headed, that to hear the hoots and hollers from the crowd as Steven spews this nonsense, tells me this church is on its way to being a cult, and Steven Furtick a cult leader. Perhaps it is there already.
I don't point out the exploits of Furtick and his other mega church pastor friends just to get a laugh and chuckle. This is serious business, these guys are forever damaging Christianity in America.
When I heard Furtick spew this nonsense, it reminded me of the story a friend told me about why he had to stop attending his church. His pastor was so aggressive in raising money that he told the men in the congregation that if they were not tithing, they were not "real men". The pastor said they were having other men "pay their way", and that no real man would have another man pay their way. And for good measure, the pastor said if you're a man not tithing you probably are not a Christian. This man was giving some money to the church, but he was struggling financially, had two kids in college, and was being very generous to his family in providing for their material and educational needs. He went to church to get encouragement in his faith, but instead was told on multiple occasions from the pulpit that he was no damn good, was not a man, that the pastor was the "real" man, and that in fact he probably wasn't a Christian because he didn't give 10%.
So this man felt he couldn't return to the church and continue to expose his family to a preacher who denigrated their own father's faith and manhood from the pulpit.
This is what is happening in evangelical churches - pastors who have such a love of money and power, they are turning away clear-minded, rational-thinking believers. And young people who are very adept at seeing through these shallow preachers, will be turned away from Christianity altogether.
And what this will leave is churches predominantly filled with Kool Aid drinkers who don't dare question the pastor, and who will fork over 10% of their money based on fairy tales and myths and believe they are buying favor with God.
Avoid these churches like the plague, Christian.
Yes, the Church Wants Your Money, 'Cause it Ain't Yours Big Boy!! from FBCJax Watchdog on Vimeo.
"Yes, the church wants your money!! Guess what? It's not your money! God gave you that money, Big Boy!....my name is Steven Furtick, and I approve this message!" Steven Furtick - SEE VIDEO BELOW-----------------------------------What is so fascinating about mega church pastors is the new lows to which they plunge in their attempts to expand their church, and to extend their reach into the pockets of their followers.In the video below, Steven Furtick of Elevation Church in Charlotte, NC, proudly proclaims that "Yes, the church wants your money", and then tells his church members as they hoot and holler: "It's not your money!"
What Steven means is that he and his church have a greater right to your checking account than you do. None of your money is yours, says Steven. All of your money is God's, and you need to give God back at least 10% if not more, since he gave it to you. And here's the catch: to give God back what he gave you - which doesn't make sense since God owns it all anyways - according to Steven you have only one choice: give it to Elevation Church - because Steven is building the church that Jesus promised he would be responsible for.
"And once upon a time, there was a little girl named Goldilocks who went for a walk in the woods..."
Furtick's claim to his follower's money is so illogical, and so wrong-headed, that to hear the hoots and hollers from the crowd as Steven spews this nonsense, tells me this church is on its way to being a cult, and Steven Furtick a cult leader. Perhaps it is there already.
I don't point out the exploits of Furtick and his other mega church pastor friends just to get a laugh and chuckle. This is serious business, these guys are forever damaging Christianity in America. When I heard Furtick spew this nonsense, it reminded me of the story a friend told me about why he had to stop attending his church. His pastor was so aggressive in raising money that he told the men in the congregation that if they were not tithing, they were not "real men". The pastor said they were having other men "pay their way", and that no real man would have another man pay their way. And for good measure, the pastor said if you're a man not tithing you probably are not a Christian. This man was giving some money to the church, but he was struggling financially, had two kids in college, and was being very generous to his family in providing for their material and educational needs. He went to church to get encouragement in his faith, but instead was told on multiple occasions from the pulpit that he was no damn good, was not a man, that the pastor was the "real" man, and that in fact he probably wasn't a Christian because he didn't give 10%.
So this man felt he couldn't return to the church and continue to expose his family to a preacher who denigrated their own father's faith and manhood from the pulpit.
This is what is happening in evangelical churches - pastors who have such a love of money and power, they are turning away clear-minded, rational-thinking believers. And young people who are very adept at seeing through these shallow preachers, will be turned away from Christianity altogether.
And what this will leave is churches predominantly filled with Kool Aid drinkers who don't dare question the pastor, and who will fork over 10% of their money based on fairy tales and myths and believe they are buying favor with God.
Avoid these churches like the plague, Christian.
Yes, the Church Wants Your Money, 'Cause it Ain't Yours Big Boy!! from FBCJax Watchdog on Vimeo.
Happy 2013 from the Watchdog!!
To contact us Click HERE
Hello Readers! I want to wish you all a very Happy New Year! I hope that 2013 is a year of health and prosperity for all of you!
The FBC Jax Watchdog blog continues in 2013, its 7th year, because I still care. Yes, I do still care about harm done by authoritarian pastors and teaching of self-serving, nonsensical doctrines. Because I care, I will continue to blog.
I will start off 2013 tomorrow, January 2nd, by beginning to discuss a lawsuit settled in 2012 involving Perry Noble and NewSpring church over Noble's sycophants who went after a blogger and his family to intimidate the blogger for his criticism of Noble and NewSpring. This saga gives a glimpse into what the modern-day mega church pastors and their employees are really all about.
Again, Happy New Year to all, and look for a post tomorrow!
Hello Readers! I want to wish you all a very Happy New Year! I hope that 2013 is a year of health and prosperity for all of you!The FBC Jax Watchdog blog continues in 2013, its 7th year, because I still care. Yes, I do still care about harm done by authoritarian pastors and teaching of self-serving, nonsensical doctrines. Because I care, I will continue to blog.
I will start off 2013 tomorrow, January 2nd, by beginning to discuss a lawsuit settled in 2012 involving Perry Noble and NewSpring church over Noble's sycophants who went after a blogger and his family to intimidate the blogger for his criticism of Noble and NewSpring. This saga gives a glimpse into what the modern-day mega church pastors and their employees are really all about.
Again, Happy New Year to all, and look for a post tomorrow!
Perry Noble and NewSpring Church Settle Lawsuit Over Church's Harrassment of Blogger and His Family
To contact us Click HERE
"Ignore the jackass. In Greek, 'jackass' is translated 'blogger'....bloggers that go online, that will take shots at you, that copy parts of your sermon...who has time for that? The jackass. You [the jackass] have no friends! The reason you have no friends is you're a jackass! That is your problem, either that or you're demon possessed or oppressed. Because when a move of God is working and people are getting saved and lives are changed, who would criticize that, God or Satan?" Perry Noble at 2009 "Unleashed" pastor's conference.-----------------
It was about three years ago that I first introduced Perry Noble and NewSpring Church on this blog. If you go back and read that WD post here, posted way back in December 2009, you'll see it was concerning a blogger named Dr. James Duncan, who dared to criticize Perry Noble's teachings and methods on his blog "Pajama Pages".
What did Duncan get for his criticism? In 2009 Noble's employees and volunteers smeared Duncan's reputation by starting a phony Twitter account with gross and profane sexual posts attributed to Dr. Duncan, a fake resignation letter to his employer, and perhaps worst of all, sabatoge of Dr. Duncan's adoption efforts in 2009. You can read all about these here.
Thankfully, Dr. Duncan fought back. It is not an easy process to fight a powerful church and pastor for the harm they have done to your reputation, but Dr. Duncan fought back by filing a lawsuit against Noble and NewSpring. Since December 2009, Dr. Duncan's blog has been silent as he has fought the difficult legal battle.
I am happy to announce that Dr. Duncan did prevail in his lawsuit, as NewSpring and Noble settled with Dr. Duncan after months and months of depositions and legal discovery. Very likely all that came out of the discovery process would have been much too embarrassing to Noble and NewSpring in a public trial, so they decided to settle. But thankfully, it doesn't stop there, as Dr. Duncan has decided to begin blogging again to tell his readers what he learned from the months of depositions that led to NewSpring settling the lawsuit.
I am going to follow and write about Dr. Duncan's posts about the inside story of what was going on at NewSpring, and why these people at NewSpring did what they did to a very fine, Christian man. Dr. Duncan is a committed Christian, has a wonderful family, and is highly educated . He has a master's and Ph.D. from Regent University, and is a professor and department chair in communications at Anderson University, yet he was vilified and persecuted by Noble's sycophants because he dared to criticize the most prominent and powerful pastor in his community.
But there is much to be learned from this saga, and I will delve into it over the next few weeks as we learn more details from Dr. Duncan. This sort of thing, the demonization and persecution of church critics is a natural outflow from modern evangelicalism and fundamentalism which teaches pastors are special "God-appointed agents", modern-day prophets sent by God to teach Christians how to live. This is what is taught in the seminaries, and it is what is preached from the pulpits. Thus, when a church critic arises, they aren't just criticizing a man or an institution, they are attacking God himself.
Read the Perry Noble quote again at the top of this post - this is the view of many fundamentalists today. It is all black and white. Challenge or criticize a pastor, you're doing the work of Satan. You're probably demon possessed. You're a jackass with no friends, a blogger in your mom's basement eating Cheetos.
So WD readers, stay tuned for more analysis on this topic. And NewSpring members and employees and volunteers, please begin following Dr. Duncan's blog so that you can learn in more detail what your church did to a fine man in your community - and what your tithes and offerings had to pay for to defend the lawsuit and to repair the damage that your church did to Dr. Duncan and his family.
Meanwhile, if you want to do some research on the Duncan/Noble saga, here are some links that will help you:
"Holy Rage at the Spring" - Dr. Duncan's detailed account of what NewSpring did to him and his family - it is grotesque and disturbing, so be prepared.
"Shut Up, They Explained" - Dr. Duncan's 2009 defense of his blog
"Perry Noble Says You're a Jackass" - Apprising Ministry December 2009 summary
Duncan Interview by Chris Rosebrough - Chris Rosebrough interviewed Dr. Duncan in December 2009 on his Fighting for the Faith radio show.
"Ignore the jackass. In Greek, 'jackass' is translated 'blogger'....bloggers that go online, that will take shots at you, that copy parts of your sermon...who has time for that? The jackass. You [the jackass] have no friends! The reason you have no friends is you're a jackass! That is your problem, either that or you're demon possessed or oppressed. Because when a move of God is working and people are getting saved and lives are changed, who would criticize that, God or Satan?" Perry Noble at 2009 "Unleashed" pastor's conference.----------------- It was about three years ago that I first introduced Perry Noble and NewSpring Church on this blog. If you go back and read that WD post here, posted way back in December 2009, you'll see it was concerning a blogger named Dr. James Duncan, who dared to criticize Perry Noble's teachings and methods on his blog "Pajama Pages".
What did Duncan get for his criticism? In 2009 Noble's employees and volunteers smeared Duncan's reputation by starting a phony Twitter account with gross and profane sexual posts attributed to Dr. Duncan, a fake resignation letter to his employer, and perhaps worst of all, sabatoge of Dr. Duncan's adoption efforts in 2009. You can read all about these here.
Thankfully, Dr. Duncan fought back. It is not an easy process to fight a powerful church and pastor for the harm they have done to your reputation, but Dr. Duncan fought back by filing a lawsuit against Noble and NewSpring. Since December 2009, Dr. Duncan's blog has been silent as he has fought the difficult legal battle.
I am happy to announce that Dr. Duncan did prevail in his lawsuit, as NewSpring and Noble settled with Dr. Duncan after months and months of depositions and legal discovery. Very likely all that came out of the discovery process would have been much too embarrassing to Noble and NewSpring in a public trial, so they decided to settle. But thankfully, it doesn't stop there, as Dr. Duncan has decided to begin blogging again to tell his readers what he learned from the months of depositions that led to NewSpring settling the lawsuit.
I am going to follow and write about Dr. Duncan's posts about the inside story of what was going on at NewSpring, and why these people at NewSpring did what they did to a very fine, Christian man. Dr. Duncan is a committed Christian, has a wonderful family, and is highly educated . He has a master's and Ph.D. from Regent University, and is a professor and department chair in communications at Anderson University, yet he was vilified and persecuted by Noble's sycophants because he dared to criticize the most prominent and powerful pastor in his community.
But there is much to be learned from this saga, and I will delve into it over the next few weeks as we learn more details from Dr. Duncan. This sort of thing, the demonization and persecution of church critics is a natural outflow from modern evangelicalism and fundamentalism which teaches pastors are special "God-appointed agents", modern-day prophets sent by God to teach Christians how to live. This is what is taught in the seminaries, and it is what is preached from the pulpits. Thus, when a church critic arises, they aren't just criticizing a man or an institution, they are attacking God himself.
Read the Perry Noble quote again at the top of this post - this is the view of many fundamentalists today. It is all black and white. Challenge or criticize a pastor, you're doing the work of Satan. You're probably demon possessed. You're a jackass with no friends, a blogger in your mom's basement eating Cheetos.
So WD readers, stay tuned for more analysis on this topic. And NewSpring members and employees and volunteers, please begin following Dr. Duncan's blog so that you can learn in more detail what your church did to a fine man in your community - and what your tithes and offerings had to pay for to defend the lawsuit and to repair the damage that your church did to Dr. Duncan and his family.
Meanwhile, if you want to do some research on the Duncan/Noble saga, here are some links that will help you:
"Holy Rage at the Spring" - Dr. Duncan's detailed account of what NewSpring did to him and his family - it is grotesque and disturbing, so be prepared.
"Shut Up, They Explained" - Dr. Duncan's 2009 defense of his blog
"Perry Noble Says You're a Jackass" - Apprising Ministry December 2009 summary
Duncan Interview by Chris Rosebrough - Chris Rosebrough interviewed Dr. Duncan in December 2009 on his Fighting for the Faith radio show.
Some Refreshing Words for the Weary Church Member: Jesus is Your Rest
To contact us Click HERE
Readers - I rarely go back and repost previous WD blog posts, but I feel I need to cover a few significant posts from 2011 that will be very helpful to WD readers - and thanks to longtime WD reader and commenter "Thy Peace" whose comment over at the Wartburg Watch prompted me to move in this direction!
I know what it is to struggle to find a church home, to find a place where you can take your family to worship God and hear a sermon that encourages you in your faith from the heart of a person who truly wants to help you and your family. Over the past few years we've actually been blessed to be in several churches in our city where we HAVE found this - and where believers are not hung up on worshiping their pastor and their institution. But to make a transition is especially difficult when your family has had to leave a long-time church when the preacher has stomped on your faith with unloving, legalistic teachings and you've had to bolt. It is not easy to find a new church home as preachers are under tremendous pressure to preach sermons to keep the revenue flowing to prop up their institutions.
And so many church members I've heard from are just plain weary from the heavy burdens placed on them by their pastor, as the pastor has put forth a religious system of performance - you do this, and God will do this. You give this, God will bless you this way. If you don't give this percentage, or serve this way, or evangelize this many times, or attend church these days, God will only bless you in proportion to your obedience is the message of the day. And not only that, God will purposely hold back blessings and bring harm in proportion to your lack of commitment. This all is anti-Christian, yet it IS the overall message of the day in most churches.
If that is you, I offer you some excerpts from a Wade Burleson sermon that I featured on this blog back in 2011. What you will hear from Wade will actually shock you - because it is what you likely have never heard from any preacher before, and you will probably never hear it stated so honestly and emphatically from any preacher. But when you hear what Wade says, you will know that it is precisely the truth and lines up with what you have read in your bible. Wade says what you know to be true from your bible, but what your preacher will not ever freely admit.
Below is the first post on this Wade Burleson January 2011 sermon, and I will repost the others in the next few days. Enjoy.
------------------------------------------
"Christian, Jesus is Your Jubilee, and You Can Rest - Part 1"
FBC Jax Watchdog Post 7/21/11
"You will have preachers tell you that this year should be the time that you commit more TO God, that you promise to do more FOR God, that you work the fields DOUBLE. And what the preachers will say to you is 'God will be very pleased with you if you do that.' Do you not see that they have missed the Christian message?" -----------------------Readers - over the next several days I want to share with you several excerpts from a sermon preached by Wade Burleson the first Sunday of January 2011. The short 2-minute video above is the first of about 4 clips I will show here on the blog.
On this blog we have looked at a number of mega church pastors over the past year or so that are really beating up the sheep during these tough economic times. Most of these mega church pastors are models for other pastors, their methods are emulated by other pastors who look up to them. These pastors load rules and regulations on the backs of their people. They use tactics of scare and guilt and shame, even ridicule and mocking, to get their sheep to bend to their will in the matters of service and financial contributions.
So it is time to take a step back and look at how simple the gospel really is that these men have complicated, and outright misrepresented.
In this brief sermon by Wade he explains how when you come to Christ, you can REST in your efforts to produce for God. You don't have to produce FOR God. You are not a slave to God. You are a "son" or "daughter" of God, and you can rest. When it comes to giving - you give generously as the spirit leads you. That is it. No need to have a man scare you, or pronounce curses on you and your family, or tell you that God collects it anyways through calamity.
The truth is we are free in Christ. Christ is our "Jubilee" as Wade preaches. Christians under the New Covenant are free, and are led by the Spirit. While Pastors use the Bible to create a holy sense of duty that Christians have to perform for God - and their pastor - to receive the blessings and favor of God, the truth is we can rest from our efforts to produce for God. Pastors are trying to say you "owe" God a tithe, that you have a debt that MUST be paid, else he will collect it by force and withhold blessings.
People, Jesus paid that debt, no matter how much the pastors point and stomp and yell to convince you otherwise.
I know many of those of you who regularly read this blog have endured much over the past few years from preachers who have spiritually beat you up and raked you over the coals. Some of you have had to leave your church, others have dealt with the conflict of leaving your church vs. staying and waiting. You feel tired and abused. You've had the bible used to beat you up over the head - that you aren't giving enough, you aren't serving enough, you're not faithful enough and that you will pay a price for your slackness. You've had pastors question your salvation, you men have had pastors question your manhood and your commitment to the Lord. You've given all you can but you've been made to feel it isn't enough, that still you can't enjoy the full blessings of God until you get to a certain level of giving. You've been yelled at, pointed at, lied to, and even mocked by the man in the pulpit.
And although I do focus on the mega churches on this blog because of their wide audience and influence of other ministers - these same antics happen in smaller churches. I know of one in particular in Jacksonville that is going through some upheaval and a church split over these same issues. It is so sad.
So enjoy these excerpts over the next several days from Wade Burleson. You will find them refreshing as you see a preacher who speaks the truth to the sheep about their position in Christ. He speaks the truth that so many pastors are afraid to preach these days, for fear that they won't get the results they need from their flock to keep the family business going.
If you want to see Wade's sermon in its entirety, go to his church's website here, click on the "Watch Live" button in the upper right hand corner, register for a login account, then go to his January 2, 2011 sermon entitled "Your Year of Jubilee".
Enjoy....more to come.
Readers - I rarely go back and repost previous WD blog posts, but I feel I need to cover a few significant posts from 2011 that will be very helpful to WD readers - and thanks to longtime WD reader and commenter "Thy Peace" whose comment over at the Wartburg Watch prompted me to move in this direction!I know what it is to struggle to find a church home, to find a place where you can take your family to worship God and hear a sermon that encourages you in your faith from the heart of a person who truly wants to help you and your family. Over the past few years we've actually been blessed to be in several churches in our city where we HAVE found this - and where believers are not hung up on worshiping their pastor and their institution. But to make a transition is especially difficult when your family has had to leave a long-time church when the preacher has stomped on your faith with unloving, legalistic teachings and you've had to bolt. It is not easy to find a new church home as preachers are under tremendous pressure to preach sermons to keep the revenue flowing to prop up their institutions.
And so many church members I've heard from are just plain weary from the heavy burdens placed on them by their pastor, as the pastor has put forth a religious system of performance - you do this, and God will do this. You give this, God will bless you this way. If you don't give this percentage, or serve this way, or evangelize this many times, or attend church these days, God will only bless you in proportion to your obedience is the message of the day. And not only that, God will purposely hold back blessings and bring harm in proportion to your lack of commitment. This all is anti-Christian, yet it IS the overall message of the day in most churches.
If that is you, I offer you some excerpts from a Wade Burleson sermon that I featured on this blog back in 2011. What you will hear from Wade will actually shock you - because it is what you likely have never heard from any preacher before, and you will probably never hear it stated so honestly and emphatically from any preacher. But when you hear what Wade says, you will know that it is precisely the truth and lines up with what you have read in your bible. Wade says what you know to be true from your bible, but what your preacher will not ever freely admit.
Below is the first post on this Wade Burleson January 2011 sermon, and I will repost the others in the next few days. Enjoy.
------------------------------------------
"Christian, Jesus is Your Jubilee, and You Can Rest - Part 1"
FBC Jax Watchdog Post 7/21/11
"You will have preachers tell you that this year should be the time that you commit more TO God, that you promise to do more FOR God, that you work the fields DOUBLE. And what the preachers will say to you is 'God will be very pleased with you if you do that.' Do you not see that they have missed the Christian message?" -----------------------Readers - over the next several days I want to share with you several excerpts from a sermon preached by Wade Burleson the first Sunday of January 2011. The short 2-minute video above is the first of about 4 clips I will show here on the blog.
On this blog we have looked at a number of mega church pastors over the past year or so that are really beating up the sheep during these tough economic times. Most of these mega church pastors are models for other pastors, their methods are emulated by other pastors who look up to them. These pastors load rules and regulations on the backs of their people. They use tactics of scare and guilt and shame, even ridicule and mocking, to get their sheep to bend to their will in the matters of service and financial contributions.
So it is time to take a step back and look at how simple the gospel really is that these men have complicated, and outright misrepresented.
In this brief sermon by Wade he explains how when you come to Christ, you can REST in your efforts to produce for God. You don't have to produce FOR God. You are not a slave to God. You are a "son" or "daughter" of God, and you can rest. When it comes to giving - you give generously as the spirit leads you. That is it. No need to have a man scare you, or pronounce curses on you and your family, or tell you that God collects it anyways through calamity.
The truth is we are free in Christ. Christ is our "Jubilee" as Wade preaches. Christians under the New Covenant are free, and are led by the Spirit. While Pastors use the Bible to create a holy sense of duty that Christians have to perform for God - and their pastor - to receive the blessings and favor of God, the truth is we can rest from our efforts to produce for God. Pastors are trying to say you "owe" God a tithe, that you have a debt that MUST be paid, else he will collect it by force and withhold blessings.
People, Jesus paid that debt, no matter how much the pastors point and stomp and yell to convince you otherwise.
I know many of those of you who regularly read this blog have endured much over the past few years from preachers who have spiritually beat you up and raked you over the coals. Some of you have had to leave your church, others have dealt with the conflict of leaving your church vs. staying and waiting. You feel tired and abused. You've had the bible used to beat you up over the head - that you aren't giving enough, you aren't serving enough, you're not faithful enough and that you will pay a price for your slackness. You've had pastors question your salvation, you men have had pastors question your manhood and your commitment to the Lord. You've given all you can but you've been made to feel it isn't enough, that still you can't enjoy the full blessings of God until you get to a certain level of giving. You've been yelled at, pointed at, lied to, and even mocked by the man in the pulpit.
And although I do focus on the mega churches on this blog because of their wide audience and influence of other ministers - these same antics happen in smaller churches. I know of one in particular in Jacksonville that is going through some upheaval and a church split over these same issues. It is so sad.
So enjoy these excerpts over the next several days from Wade Burleson. You will find them refreshing as you see a preacher who speaks the truth to the sheep about their position in Christ. He speaks the truth that so many pastors are afraid to preach these days, for fear that they won't get the results they need from their flock to keep the family business going.
If you want to see Wade's sermon in its entirety, go to his church's website here, click on the "Watch Live" button in the upper right hand corner, register for a login account, then go to his January 2, 2011 sermon entitled "Your Year of Jubilee".
Enjoy....more to come.
Modern Day Religious Pharisees Now Criticizing Tebow
To contact us Click HERE
The evangelical Holy Men of God are hell-bent on showing the world that they are the modern-day version of the Pharisees in Jesus' day.
Case in point is the criticism being directed at Tim Tebow by men like Vines, Mohler, and Graham this week after Tebow announced he was backing out of an April speaking gig at the First Baptist Church of Dallas.
For the past several weeks Tebow has been criticized by many in the secular media for his decision to speak at FBC Dallas because of the controversy surrounding their pastor Robert Jeffress and his stand on issues of homosexuality, Catholicism, and Obama. For sure people in the secular media have used their influence to try to pressure Tebow to behave as they believe he should, that he should cancel his speaking engagement.
But now that Tebow - as his own man, for his own reasons, and presumably according to the dictates of his own heart and faith - has decided to not go to FBC Dallas, the Holy Men of God are now doing exactly what they can't stand the secular media trying to do: trying to squeeze Tim Tebow to fit THEIR mold, and criticizing him when he doesn't do what they think he should.
I'm perfectly comfortable with Tim canceling his FBC Dallas gig. Why? Simply because I trust his judgment, as he has earned the right to be respected when he makes decisions such as this. Unlike many of the Holy Men now criticizing him, he has shown himself to be the real deal, a real Christian who HAS lived out his faith in the face of intense criticism the past 5 years with nary a complaint. He HAS used his money and influence to do many good works that Jesus would have him do. He has done mountains more to spread the gospel than all the mega church preachers put together. So guess what - I trust his judgment to do what he thinks is best as he lives out his Christian faith. He absolutely does not have have to bow to the whims of modern day Pharisees like Jerry Vines or Albert Mohler or Jack Graham.
And speaking of Vines: how sad - and hypocritical - is it that his former pastor, Jerry Vines, openly criticized Tebow via Twitter for simply deciding not to speak at FBC Dallas in April. Look at these Tweets from Vines, and the many "retweets" by Vines' followers:
What a hypocrite. What is Vines talking about? The "devil laughed" when Tebow canceled his speaking engagement? Really? I guess it makes sense that Vines has the inside track on what makes the devil laugh, since Vines doesn't have even 1/10th of the discernment that Tebow has when it comes to choosing speaking venues or choosing speakers. Vines was the one who gave Ergun Caner the pulpit in 2001 and nodded with approval as Caner lied through his teeth about being a trained terrorist raised in Turkey. It was Vines who first brought Darrel Gilyard to Jacksonville to preach and did nothing to warn people at Shiloh Baptist about Gilyard's sexual predation upon Gilyard's return to Jacksonville. It was Vines who went to preach at Gilyard's church in 2006 when Vines knew what a sexual pervert Gilyard had shown himself to be over and over while he was in Dallas - and Vines STILL went to speak at Gilyard's church knowing Gilyard tried to seduce one of Vines' own church members during a youth revival tour. Yes, Vines can only dream that he has a portion of Tebow's discernment.
Jerry, if the devil laughed over Tebow's decision to not speak at Dallas, then the devil must have had a month-long Mardi Gras over your decision to preach at Gilyard's church in 2006. The devil also has had a 10-year party while Ergun Caner lied in churches and to our troops. YOU started that, Jerry, when you failed to do your due diligence in 2001 - or worse, maybe you knew Caner was lying, but you didn't care. Which was it? We don't know, because you've been silent over Caner's exposure as a fraud, but you now are making a big deal over Tebow's decision.
But this shows the misplaced priorities of Pharisees - they are not so much interested in your good deeds, or what you do for God - or whether you are a habitual liar like Caner or the real-deal like Tebow - what they are most interested is whether or not you agree with their religious teachings, and if you believe exactly as they say you should believe and if you agree with their narrow interpretation of the bible.
Even Prestonwood Baptist Church pastor and former SBC president Jack Graham criticized Tebow for his decision, assuming he bowed to the pressure of cultural decay:
Perhaps the reason all of these Holy Men of God are so wigged out over Tebow's decision is that they know Tebow's home church in Jacksonville is no different than FBC Dallas. Maybe they're worried that the most influential Christian of our day who has earned the respect they never could - might actually be signaling that he is turning away from his fundamentalist roots. The Holy Men of God know how dangerous this is to their own religious power, as Tebow speaks with the real-life, living-out-his-faith kind of power the Holy Men of God don't have. He doesn't just stand in a pulpit bloviating and dictating on Sunday mornings, collecting a fat check from church coffers like the big wig Holy Men of God. No, Tebow is in the real-world, engaging real people and doing real good works to help hurting people.
Tim is learning the sad truth that in the fundamentalist world in which he was raised is that what is important to measure someone's faith by is NOT necessarily how much good they do, but it is whether you believe exactly as they do. Pretty sad.
All this time Tebow thought it was the secular media who was watching and waiting for him to fall - now he knows it was the modern-day Pharisees who were waiting and watching - not for him to sin but for him to somehow go against their strict teachings. What a loving bunch.
The Pharisees criticized Jesus for doing good on the Sabbath, because Jesus dared to break their rules and ignore their teachings, showing them to be hypocrites.
Now the modern-day Pharisees are doing the same with Tebow. I hope Tebow continues to show them to be the hypocrites they are.
---------------------------
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.' "
The evangelical Holy Men of God are hell-bent on showing the world that they are the modern-day version of the Pharisees in Jesus' day.Case in point is the criticism being directed at Tim Tebow by men like Vines, Mohler, and Graham this week after Tebow announced he was backing out of an April speaking gig at the First Baptist Church of Dallas.
For the past several weeks Tebow has been criticized by many in the secular media for his decision to speak at FBC Dallas because of the controversy surrounding their pastor Robert Jeffress and his stand on issues of homosexuality, Catholicism, and Obama. For sure people in the secular media have used their influence to try to pressure Tebow to behave as they believe he should, that he should cancel his speaking engagement.
But now that Tebow - as his own man, for his own reasons, and presumably according to the dictates of his own heart and faith - has decided to not go to FBC Dallas, the Holy Men of God are now doing exactly what they can't stand the secular media trying to do: trying to squeeze Tim Tebow to fit THEIR mold, and criticizing him when he doesn't do what they think he should.
I'm perfectly comfortable with Tim canceling his FBC Dallas gig. Why? Simply because I trust his judgment, as he has earned the right to be respected when he makes decisions such as this. Unlike many of the Holy Men now criticizing him, he has shown himself to be the real deal, a real Christian who HAS lived out his faith in the face of intense criticism the past 5 years with nary a complaint. He HAS used his money and influence to do many good works that Jesus would have him do. He has done mountains more to spread the gospel than all the mega church preachers put together. So guess what - I trust his judgment to do what he thinks is best as he lives out his Christian faith. He absolutely does not have have to bow to the whims of modern day Pharisees like Jerry Vines or Albert Mohler or Jack Graham.
And speaking of Vines: how sad - and hypocritical - is it that his former pastor, Jerry Vines, openly criticized Tebow via Twitter for simply deciding not to speak at FBC Dallas in April. Look at these Tweets from Vines, and the many "retweets" by Vines' followers:
What a hypocrite. What is Vines talking about? The "devil laughed" when Tebow canceled his speaking engagement? Really? I guess it makes sense that Vines has the inside track on what makes the devil laugh, since Vines doesn't have even 1/10th of the discernment that Tebow has when it comes to choosing speaking venues or choosing speakers. Vines was the one who gave Ergun Caner the pulpit in 2001 and nodded with approval as Caner lied through his teeth about being a trained terrorist raised in Turkey. It was Vines who first brought Darrel Gilyard to Jacksonville to preach and did nothing to warn people at Shiloh Baptist about Gilyard's sexual predation upon Gilyard's return to Jacksonville. It was Vines who went to preach at Gilyard's church in 2006 when Vines knew what a sexual pervert Gilyard had shown himself to be over and over while he was in Dallas - and Vines STILL went to speak at Gilyard's church knowing Gilyard tried to seduce one of Vines' own church members during a youth revival tour. Yes, Vines can only dream that he has a portion of Tebow's discernment.
Jerry, if the devil laughed over Tebow's decision to not speak at Dallas, then the devil must have had a month-long Mardi Gras over your decision to preach at Gilyard's church in 2006. The devil also has had a 10-year party while Ergun Caner lied in churches and to our troops. YOU started that, Jerry, when you failed to do your due diligence in 2001 - or worse, maybe you knew Caner was lying, but you didn't care. Which was it? We don't know, because you've been silent over Caner's exposure as a fraud, but you now are making a big deal over Tebow's decision.
But this shows the misplaced priorities of Pharisees - they are not so much interested in your good deeds, or what you do for God - or whether you are a habitual liar like Caner or the real-deal like Tebow - what they are most interested is whether or not you agree with their religious teachings, and if you believe exactly as they say you should believe and if you agree with their narrow interpretation of the bible.
Even Prestonwood Baptist Church pastor and former SBC president Jack Graham criticized Tebow for his decision, assuming he bowed to the pressure of cultural decay:
Perhaps the reason all of these Holy Men of God are so wigged out over Tebow's decision is that they know Tebow's home church in Jacksonville is no different than FBC Dallas. Maybe they're worried that the most influential Christian of our day who has earned the respect they never could - might actually be signaling that he is turning away from his fundamentalist roots. The Holy Men of God know how dangerous this is to their own religious power, as Tebow speaks with the real-life, living-out-his-faith kind of power the Holy Men of God don't have. He doesn't just stand in a pulpit bloviating and dictating on Sunday mornings, collecting a fat check from church coffers like the big wig Holy Men of God. No, Tebow is in the real-world, engaging real people and doing real good works to help hurting people.
Tim is learning the sad truth that in the fundamentalist world in which he was raised is that what is important to measure someone's faith by is NOT necessarily how much good they do, but it is whether you believe exactly as they do. Pretty sad.
All this time Tebow thought it was the secular media who was watching and waiting for him to fall - now he knows it was the modern-day Pharisees who were waiting and watching - not for him to sin but for him to somehow go against their strict teachings. What a loving bunch.
The Pharisees criticized Jesus for doing good on the Sabbath, because Jesus dared to break their rules and ignore their teachings, showing them to be hypocrites.
Now the modern-day Pharisees are doing the same with Tebow. I hope Tebow continues to show them to be the hypocrites they are.
---------------------------
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.' "
23 Şubat 2013 Cumartesi
PERSECUTION.ORG / Egypt's Power Struggle and the Fate of Christians
To contact us Click HERE
PERSECUTION.ORG 14th July, 2012 by Aidan CLAY07/13/2012 Washington, D.C. (International Christian Concern) — In defiance of Egypt’s top generals and highest court, Muslim Brotherhood presidential-elect Mohammed Morsi reopened parliament on Tuesday. In only his third week in office, Morsi’s rapid-fire pursuit to broaden the Brotherhood’s power openly challenges the country’s ruling military council. Egypt’s Coptic Christian minority fears that the restoration of parliament, which will grant greater powers to Islamists, will be used to institute Sharia law and stifle religious freedoms.On July 10, Egypt’s lower chamber, the People’s Assembly, convened despite a ruling by the Supreme Constitutional Court on June 14 ordering the parliament’s dissolution. Saad el-Katatni, the assembly’s speaker, told lawmakers the session was being held to seek a “second opinion” by an appellate court in an effort to reinstate the Islamist-dominated legislature. The court, however, did not concede to the chamber’s request, upholding its earlier ruling that the parliament had been elected unconstitutionally and that its dissolution was “final and binding”.If the parliament were to be reinstated, the Muslim Brotherhood—which holds nearly half the seats in the Islamist-dominated assembly—would head both the legislature and the presidency. Yet, a Brotherhood-controlled civilian government appears to be what Egypt’s ruling generals fear most. Only a week prior to Morsi’s announcement as president, the military announced a constitutional declaration on June 17 that expands their control over civilian politicians and strips the head of state of most of his powers. Morsi’s move to defy the court ruling by reconvening parliament was not only considered to be illegal by the military council, but also a direct challenge to the establishment’s authority.In a warning to the president, the military said it would support the country’s “legitimacy, constitution and law” by upholding the court’s ruling. “[This is] language that means [the military] will not stand by and watch the rulings of the country's top court ignored or breached,” the Christian Science Monitor reported. Despite the military’s grip on power, Bret Stephens, a reporter for The Wall Street Journal, argues that Egypt has already been “lost” to Islamists and that a radical future, similar to what was seen in Iran’s 1979 Islamic revolution, lingers on the horizon. “Egypt under the Brotherhood will seek to arm Hamas and remilitarize the Sinai. By degrees, it will seek to extract concessions from the U.S. as the price of its good behavior. By degrees, it will make radical alliances in the Middle East and beyond.”However, Daniel Pipes, the President of the Middle East Forum, argues the contrary, saying that the military, not the Brotherhood, has the ultimate power in Egypt. “Not only was the [presidential] election symbolic, but it was also illusory, in that the military leadership scripted it,” Pipes wrote in an op-ed for the National Review. “[Mohammed Morsi’s] job is undefined. A military coup could brush him aside… Mohamed Tantawi is the real ruler of Egypt. Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), field marshal, and minister of defense, he serves not only as the commander-in-chief but also as the effective head of all three of Egypt’s branches of government… The [military] exploits the Muslim Brotherhood and other proxies as its civilian fronts, a role they are happy to play, as it has permitted the Islamists to garner an outsized percentage of the parliamentary vote and then to win the presidency.”Egypt’s Coptic Christian minority, who make up 10 percent of the population, hope that Pipes is right, fearful that if the Brotherhood gains leverage over the military, the country could quickly transition into an Islamic state.“There is a Brotherhood strategy to work toward building an Islamic country,” Yousef Sidhom, editor of the weekly Watani newspaper and a Coptic Church official, told The Associated Press. He added that the Brotherhood will withhold government positions from Christians, tax non-Muslims, and base education around Islam.The Brotherhood will not likely concede to pressure by the military, vowing to “fight in the courts and the streets to reinstate the Parliament,” according to The New York Times. Prior to the reconvening of parliament, the Brotherhood’s Secretary-General Mahmoud Hussein called for a “million-man march” to “regain the parliament” and denounced the military’s hold on power. A few hundred protestors supporting the Brotherhood responded to the call in Cairo's Tahrir Square on Monday, chanting, “We love you Morsi,” and “Down with military rule.”“This may end being a game of 'chicken' [to see] who withdraws his decision first,” Dr. Omar Ashour, a scholar at the Brookings Doha Center and director of the Middle East Politics Graduate Studies Program at the University of Exeter, told msnbc.com.Christians and all Egyptians anticipate the power struggle, which Reuters labeled “a war of attrition,” to be far from over. More battles lie ahead, including the drafting of Egypt’s constitution, the right of which was stripped from the parliament last month in a decree that authorizes the military to appoint the body to write the document. In this confrontation for power, nothing less than the very ideals of Egypt’s revolution—mainly that a democratically elected government would replace the military—are at stake.You are free to disseminate this news story. We request that you reference ICC (International Christian Concern) and include our web address, www.persecution.org. ICC is a Washington-DC based human rights organization that exists to help persecuted Christians worldwide. ICC provides Awareness, Advocacy, and Assistance to the worldwide persecuted Church. You may contact the author at clay@persecution.org.
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